Wednesday, August 26, 2009

Spice Responds...

Following this post last week, I received this message from Spice PR Driselle Ramjohn on August 21st 2009.

Hi Ac Boots,

We at Spice Carnival have in the past and will continue to try to accommodate all masqueraders interested in playing mas with us. 

We have never and will never discriminate against anyone.

Based on the availability of sizes to us on the frontline costumes we are only able to offer frontlines at the specified sizes (which can be seen on our website) This issue is beyond our control. 

However we do deal with everyone on a case by case basis with personalized service to see if we can come up with an option that you are most happy with. 

Our backline sections encompasses a range of sizes and we are also the only Carnival band that offers corsets as an option. 

We continue to go the extra mile to accommodate everyone and to ensure that all our masqueraders are comfortable on road.

Thank you for your interest in Spice Carnival! 



This was my email to Ms. Ramjohn sent on August 17th.

Dear Driselle,
I understand form inquiries made at the mascamp in person and via phone that Spice will not be catering to women larger than a 36C cup for their frontline costumes.

I also understand that you are not allowing masqueraders to bring in their own bras to decorate.

Can you say why this is so? 

This seems like blatant discrimination to me as it seems that the band is catering only to a certain size of
masquerader in the band.

I look forward to your response.

The words "woefully inadequate" came to mind. What say you?


Princessredz said...

Big fat steups... Circumstances beyond their control my arse.

Saucy aka "The Sauce" said...

"only able to offer", "beyond our control"??

Are these costumes CUSTOM MADE or coming already sized from CHINA?

That is the lamest, most pathetic excuse EVER.

Lets say for argument's sake the costumes do come from China at that size, they can, if they choose to get the bigger bras made in Trinidad and decorated.

That is what other bands do.

So how can they get up to a 40DD (not ALL sizes are available in backline either) but frontline they cannot even get a DD?

Sounds like bullshit served with a spoon to me.. and I had such high hopes for Spice.

mjsbunny said...

AC, you need to send this to the papers yes!

Island Soul said...

It's "beyond" their control because they planned it that way. They ordered improperly, or they CHOSE to do business with a supplier who couldn't do better, or whatever the reason is. Ultimately they made a business decision to sacrifice medium and large sized women because they felt it better served their bottom line. An organzation that is supposed to be run by women should be ashamed to admit to such. They won't see me or my money even though they can give me the size that I want.

Island Soul said...

It's "beyond" their control because they planned it that way. They ordered improperly, or they CHOSE to do business with a supplier who couldn't do better, or whatever the reason is. Ultimately they made a business decision to sacrifice medium and large sized women because they felt it better served their bottom line. An organzation that is supposed to be run by women should be ashamed to admit to such. They won't see me or my money even though they can give me the size that I want.

Joanne said...

That sounds like a big, heaping (and steaming!) load of donkey you-know-what. As other people have noted, they planned it that way or chose a supplier who couldn't accommodate. I find that to be real nonsense. So you are willing to sacrifice the money that women with larger busts -- like myself! -- would be willing to shell out to pay because of poor planning? Please!

Michelle said...

It seems that all of you have been stricken with ignorance; no, rather stupidity, when it comes to the fact that quite simply the incessant attacks on a carnival band is unnecessary and trivial in that sense. Why? Tribe has launched. IP has launched and many others will. Why not take your hard earned money there. Will your blog even gain enough traffic for 15 minutes? 10 minutes? 5 minutes? or 1 minute of fame that you would get for highlighting such an issue as a bra size in the already issue ridden Trinidad and Tobago? Why not discuss something of importance? Crime is a good one, what about the social ills plaguing our society? But no, you and your reasoning challenged lot bicker with a carnival band you have already given your money. To this I say, why not return to Spice the money you paid for your costume registration and find one that suits your train of thought. If it is your fight, let your actions speak louder than your words.

Anonymous said...

Be quiet Michelle and go somehwere. If you don't like the post, move on...

Saucy aka "The Sauce" said...

Oh Michelle I am CERTAINLY not playing in Spice! I never registered with them, I am in a band that welcomes my money and my bra size!

And when TRIBE had a similar issue with Size Restrictions for TWO sections it was not trivial to Terry Joseph who wrote an editorial on it or the many people who wrote to the newspapers to complain. They were labeled as RACIST for not allowing anything larger than a 40D in TWO sections.

We have Spice not allowing anything larger than a 36C in NONE of their frontlines and the media is silent.

It may be trivial to YOU but mas is not trivial, it is a BIG business and some of us chose to use our blogs to talk about things that interest us such as Carnival. You can certainly blog about ills in society if you choose but please do not condemn someone for what they think their subject matter should be!

Even the newspapers splash Carnival Costumes on their front page with all the crime in Trinidad and Tobago~

Trinijam said...

STEUPS@ Michelle!!!!!!!

Tr|n|gYa| said...

Michelle, why are you complaining about the content of a PERSONAL blog? If the topics of discussion fail to appeal to your intellectual interests, don't be lame, just keep it moving doux-doux, especially as this "1 minute of fame" blog is too miniscule for your taste!

It's so funny how the biggest trolls fit into the smallest holes!

Done talk!

Karabana said...

Figures, their response didn't really answer anything. It was written in the very patronizing standard form letter style.

Dictating size to ensure a certain look (small/thin) is certainly discrimination.
I do see size discrimination as a societal problem.
Does anyone else see that racism is next?
Bands saying "these sections will only be available to people of a certain skin tone."

S said...

Just wanted to add my two cents.

This size discrimination issue has been going on for many many years. I am just glad that with he advent of the ease of mass communication that we can share our opinions on such issues and get the word out.

I have a very distinct memory of going to Barbarossa's mascamp to view costumes ... back in the day when u used to go and look at sketches framed and hung on the walls.... and there was a very skimpy section with flower petal nipple covers (sort of cage bra looking) and an equally revealing belt piece. it was was clearly labelled "SMALL AND MEDIUM ONLY"
I was still in my teens and even then I remember thinking, "That don't sound right."

At that time however, it was okay to make a joke about it (or rather noone protested it) and say silly things like 'they keeping all the bobaloops people out' etc (yes i actually heard that comment). But in the time that we live in now, that is by no stretch of the imagination acceptable and it surprises me that organizations, in this case mas bands, would risk the success of their businesses on issues such as this. Your personal opinions on what you would like to see should have nothing to do with how you treat your customers.

Even if u try to hide it under the guise of 'a supplier problem', we are not blind and frankly I am embarrassed that such is the case. It seems to be a very backward way of thinking to me.

Spice, yuh wrong and yuh wrong bad. How is it that with full knowledge of this being a problem in previous years with other bands, you thought you could get away with it? You thought people wouldn't notice? Even if just to save face and protect your image and reputation as an entity, you should, and could easily, have preempted this situation by offering a full range of sizes to suit all body types.

ALSO ... big breasts does not equal overweight! You uneducated bunch of people!

Anonymous said...

So all you TRIBE people, is TRIBE therefore forgiven now? Sauce you obviously contradicting your statements by saying in one breath you go with a band that accepts your money and size but 3 years ago they discriminated the same way. Do you need a reality check? Please I eagerly await your reasoning.

Joanne said...

Buh ay ay! How Michelle sounding so bitter? Come to a personal blog whose contents are the discretion of the owner's and you want to criticize? Is your own blog full of profound musings on the subjects you mentioned?

Saucy aka "The Sauce" said...

TRIBE had TWO sections with a size limit, Tales of Benguela and Nylon Pool frontline. After that debacle they did not make the same mistake twice.

Reality CHECK:

I was signed up in Tales of Benguela which went to 40D, I got a 36 DD because UNLIKE Spice the section leader, Bridget Pouchett, was more than willing to give me my bra size when I asked her at the mas camp. You can ask her sister as well, she also got a DD in Tales of Benguela, and the ironic part of all this is that their BROTHER is now a part of Spice lol.

Go verify that piece of info with Mr Pouchett, I don't just talk the talk people!

Anonymous said...

I must admit that yes the size restrictions by Spice is a form of i say if you don't like what they do just don't play mas with them. (i know i'm not playing with them for sure)

The costumes are their products and they can offer it to whatever sizes of people they want. If you don't like it well then simply don't support them.

I'm a plus size woman and i can NEVER get a pair of anything to fit me at Radical Designs - you ever see the sizes Radical Designs does be pushing.

In everything else i'm an XL - but if you look at it Radical XL is really a medium - they using a whole other size scale!!

They really don't want no "big" people in their clothes

So its the same thing - its their product so they have a prerogative to offer what they want.

On the issue of Tribe - the biggest discriminators in the business.

You think if people didn't put them in a papers before they wouldn't have size restrictions now? and let's not talk just about size.

That's what the whole pre-registration is all about...they only what their kinda people playing in their band. they throw a few costumes to the masses to fight up for so people can't say that they discriminating.

They cutting down the band to get to get the "undesirables out" - they always have the "exclusive this" and "behind doors that"
yes they may have big sizes - but how much? all the costumes done sold out with their friends and friends of friends that you can't even get in to see how much big sizes they actually had - just few so it don't look bad.

and don't feel the people at Tribe mas camp don't laugh at big people.
they have that "well if they want to put their self in that costume and look bad that's their business - we will take their money and laugh at them anyway

Don't even get me started on Harts - everybody know harts only have people of a certain colour - but nobody does ever accuse harts of discriminating.

With all that said - Spice, Tribe nor Harts getting any of my money for sure!

greg said...

"Based on the availability of sizes to us on the frontline costumes we are only able to offer frontlines at the specified sizes (which can be seen on our website) This issue is beyond our control."

AC you need to file that pathetic response from spice under G for GARBAGE.

Spice's days in the carnival business numbered and michelle you are seriously disillusioned with your out of order, out of timing comments.

Anonymous said...

Sauce: What's your point?
You had to ask to get your bra size. Maybe you're a blogger, wouldn't you say that requires some PR brown nose?? Nevertheless the bottom line is that it has happened with your "never can do wrong" tribe in the past (albeit except YOUR personal experience). So why bash a band that's only a year and half old? Basically I can't stand the hypocrisy, why can't we be objective when critiquing these bands?

I cannot agree with the other writer with regard to discrimination in Harts. C'mon their poster girl of many moons has been a black girl. It has been predominantly white in the past, not so much again though.

afro chic said...

For the record, despite my having the perfect boobies for SPICE, I have chosen not to play with them. My small crew and I are going elsewhere. :)

As for Michelle...girl, in case you missed the mmeo, this blog is all about ME and my experiences and as such I could blog on whatever the rass I want. LOL.

Saucy aka "The Sauce" said...

Anonymous clearly you have some issue with me personally. I did NOT have my blog when I registered in TRIBE in 2005 for Carnival in February of 2006. I started my blog in August of 2006!!! At that time I was just a masquerader asking to be accommodated and the request was granted; that is my point.

You seem to not be an avid reader of my blog or else you will know that I have criticized TRIBE MANY times when they have done wrong, as I do with other bands.

And we know that TRIBE had the size discrimination issue the fact of the matter is, and this is where they differed from Spice (who also had this size problem LAST YEAR), is that:

1. They PUBLIC ALLY addressed the allegations in the media

2. They never let it happened again. You can get any size bra in TRIBE upon registering the following year.

3.Bigger bra sizes were accommodated in Tales of Benguela, I was not the only one.

At that time it was ALSO TRIBE's second year,2006,just like Spice. So if TRIBE for the jam for it and made changes, I see no issue why Spice cannot take the criticism as well.

They don't have to change their policy, I agree. However it is still discrimination.

shells said...

That is a very very poor excuse of a response. It addresses nothing.

..and another thing: TRIBE was blasted all up and down the place for this issue a couple years ago. Why is the same thing not happening for SPICE?! Somebody gots connections in the media or something??